Interview with Magician Keith Barry
03 Sep, 2009 by James L. Clark in Articles & Papers, Interview, Magic
I absolutely love doing interviews for magazines, and this is especially so when it’s with someone I respect and can relate to. Keith Barry is no exception to that rule. So he and I began working on a feature for MagicSeen magazine (ran by my buddies across the pond in the UK) in February, 2009. This is the result of that effort — warts and all. My apologies for the strong language.
Click on this link to download the complete MagicSeen article with all the photos!
PDF interview with Keith Barry © Copyright 2009 by MagicSeen (used with permission). Interview text © Copyright 2009 James L. Clark, Snr., Esq. All rights reserved. Photos seen in PDF © Copyright 2009 Andy Amyx, used with permission. Special thanks to him for allowing us to use them.
By James L. Clark, MBA
Keith Barry and I met a couple of years ago when a mutual friend in the magic community introduced us via email, but all of our correspondence had been entirely online-until late 2008.
News of any magician coming to the “Mecca of Magic” spreads pretty quickly among the locals here in Las Vegas, but even more so when that magician is going to be headlining at a major casino-on the Strip. If you’ve never been to Vegas, Planet Hollywood is directly situated on the most active section of one of the most famous 4-mile stretches of road in the world.
To put things in perspective, the legendary David Copperfield dazzles people from all over the world at the MGM Grand with, among other things, his massive illusions and slow-motion duck Webster just down the street, the incomparable Lance Burton destroys with his classic dove act (not the doves, just the audience) in a custom built theatre at the Monte Carlo, which is but a brisk walk away, and the very hilarious Mac King is within drink-spilling distance where he performs some of the best comedy magic known to man at Harrah’s-so to say that Keith was in good company is a true understatement.
You have to understand, getting a show in Vegas is hard enough as it is, but for magicians it’s nearly impossible. Obviously, when Keith generously offered me VIP tickets to come and see his show one Friday evening, I jumped on the chance and drove my car downtown from my Summerlin home as quick as the wheels would take me.
As I approached the big lights, I put on my sunglasses, some SPF 70, and made my way to the hotel. On the short walk there from the free parking structure, it was hard to miss Keith’s mug plastered all over the f**king place on signs, busses, the back of cabs, and most impressively-shining high above us mere mortals in the glitz and lights that have defined this city since the infamous gangster Bugsy Siegel went on the spending spree building the Flamingo that got him waxed with an M1 grand by the Mob. I will freely admit that I stepped a little lighter in the pride that knowing yet another one of our brethren has been able to accomplish such a worthy goal.
After the show, which I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed (as did the crowd), I got the chance to briefly meet up with Keith. However, his schedule was pretty hectic so while we made every effort to link up again before he returned to Ireland, it wasn’t until I drug my exhausted butt to Blackpool for the convention that we were able to settle down and visit-and boy was it, to use a colloquialism from the “old country”, some great craic!
By SMS:
JC: Where u at?
KB: In the sea.
JC: What?
KB: Just getting out of the sea.
JC: What??? You mean the actual sea?
KB: Yeah. Meet up at Starbucks?
JC: Uhhh. Yeah. Want something?
KB: Hot green tea. Tnx.
JC: U got it.
I proceeded to Starbucks just down the street from the Winter Gardens and asked them for the gayest drink they make. After a brief pause, the guy at the registered responded with “white mocha?”. “Perfect!” I said. “Make it with one less pump and an extra shot please.”
A few minutes later I picked up my coffee, Keith’s tea, and what appeared to be the phone number of the barista written on the side of my cup. Hmmm. Strange. I think I should rephrase how I ask for that coffee in the future.
Anyway.
Not long later Keith showed up with two of his mates-Joe and Brian- who are genuinely two of the coolest cats I’ve ever had the privilege of meeting. They are both knowledgeable as hell in magic. My experience with the Irish (as an American) has always been excellent, and meeting up with these three men was no exception to that rule. Two of my friends from Scotland-KJ and Callum-who I’ve known since Uni drove down to meet up with us-neither are magicians, which made it all the more entertaining.
KB: Hey how ya doing?
JC: Great man. Good to see you.
[Strong manly hug ensues started with a handshake and ending with solid patting on the back]
KB: This is Joe and Brian. [more handshakes and hugs]
JC: Pleasure. Nice to meet you guys. Okay, what the fuck were you talking about “the sea”…?
KB: I went for a swim this morning. Cold.
JC: Because….?
KB: I just wanted to go for a swim. It felt f**king great man.
Now, I’m not generally the kind of guy to judge a man because he wants to go for a swim, but first thing in the morning and, in all places Blackpool, I’m just not sure how to respond to that.
JC: Okay, well… Blackpool?
KB: Yeah [to which he motions to Joe who show me photos taken on his mobile]
The conversation turns towards typical banter you’d find between any group of magicians at this point. Are you registered at the convention yet-I was not. Did I have a ticket yet-I did not. When did I get in-about 35 minutes ago fresh off the train from the airport. Did I have plans to pick up any new effects in the dealers room-I did not. What made me come at the last minute-Didn’t really have an answer actually. Sort of just decided that I wanted to visit with friends and I thought this would be a good opportunity to decompress-it was. How’s the coffee-pretty shit actually.
Over the coming days Keith and I had numerous conversations that gave me a chance to really get to know the man behind the numerous TV appearances, stage shows, and as a topic of discussion found on magic forums across the magic globe. Here’s what we talked about.
JC: I might as well ask what got you started in magic Mr. Keith Barry?
KB: I found out I wasn’t really good at masturbating, so what I did was, I picked up a magic wand and…
BOTH: [laughing]
JC: That’s why we all got married mate. Saved a lot of effort on my part.
KB: f**king Great way to start.
BOTH: [laughing]
KB: Sorry, it’s been a long day, I’m entertaining myself
JC: Too funny man.
KB: Alright, alright, alright, so…so uh…I suppose um..ya usual shite. I got a Paul Daniels magic set, so Paul will be delighted at that.
JC: No kidding. I love Paul. Great guy.
KB: I think I was five or six and that got my interest going, and in Ireland there are no magic shops like I was telling you before, I mean there’s a couple of magic societies so I joined one of those but not until I was about 12 or 13 and uh then it wasn’t really until I had gone to Scotland for a school tour, I went to Edinburgh, and I got the Klutz book of magic
JC: what? What book? The Klutz? Your dang accent threw me.
KB: The CLOOTZ, yeah you know the Klutz (throwing a more American accent) book of magic.
JC: Yeah! I’ve not seen them in the US, but I remember them from when I lived in the UK.
KB: Yeah, so I got that and that’s what really got me interested. I basically perfected every trick in that and I just started gigging. Straight from there I started going to restaurants and started table hopping; my dad thought I was f**king nuts!
JC: No kidding?
KB: I borrowed his suit when I was about 14 and just went out, I was from Waterford, to the top restaurant and asked the guy if I could do magic there and he said yeah, he didn’t even ask to see a trick.
JC: Now that’s the kind of job interview everyone hopes for.
KB: I went up there every Friday for about four years and that is how I got started really.
JC: Speaking of restaurants didn’t you work at um…the restaurant that Bono is part owner in?
KB yeah night club…
JC it’s a club?
KB: It’s called The Kitchen night club, it’s kind of, it’s not open anymore. I did that from about (age) twenty…well basically when I was 18 I went off to college for four years and became a cosmetic scientist…
JC [laughing] Whoaaaaaaaa…..what? You did what…?
KB: I never told you that?
JC: No…what? What the heck is that?
KB: [laughing] I used to invent women’s makeup.
JC: What? Are you serious? Are you kidding me?
KB: Noooooo… I studied Honors Chemistry for four years, and then I moved to Dublin and I worked with a company called Oriflame, which is a Swedish cosmetics company. I was there for two-and-a-half years as a cosmetic scientist, which means I used to invent women’s make up. You know, foundations, eye makeup removers, mascara, all that shite… but all that time I was doing magic in Dublin and I went into Bono’s place called The Kitchen… and I bull shitted my way in past the bouncers by showing them a couple of tricks. Then I got in front of Bono and did some tricks for him, and then I asked the manager in there if I could do magic in there and he said yes. Every Friday night I was in there. Pretty much simultaneously while I was doing the cosmetics, then on a Friday night and on Saturday night I’d do magic in there. After a couple of years of cosmetics I was just fed up with it, and said, fuck it I’ll do magic full time. And I did.
JC: I had no idea that you did cosmetics.
KB: Yeah it’s crazy.
JC: Make up is important for TV, as you know. I used stuff made for HD. It will eventually hit the rest of the planet. Because, I mean we are shooting 16:9 here in the US pretty much as standard even though most of Europe is still SD at 4:3, but eventually HD will become common place and as a cosmetic scientist, you know as well as I do, that some make up will look better than others. We’ve both done TV, so you know that the less silica the better, for example. I’m sure you’d know from both perspectives-as a performer and scientist-what works and what doesn’t.
KB: yeah. Right of course. The less silica the less shine.
JC: So you’re working as a chemist, what got you into four years studying chemistry dude? I would be pulling my hair out. Really.
KB: Well it was basically because there is very little opportunity to be a full time magician in Ireland unless you want to do kids parties every weekend, which I didn’t want to do.
My parents were like you know, magic is great as a hobby was always the tagline, so um….so they encouraged me I guess to go off to college. I said fuck yeah I’ll go to college. I’m from the south of Ireland and I went off to Galway for college-way up there-and had a blast; I had a great time.
I was really good at chemistry, so I was, it was really easy to me. I would just go on the piss for the four years in Galway, do magic and go out with my friends, and then get good grades at the end of it. It used to drive all the nerdy guys who used to study, crazy. And then at the end of it at graduating with a really good chemistry honours degree, they were trying to convince me to stay for my masters and then do a PhD and stuff. Because before the end of the four years, it’s like pretty much unknown to have a paper published, but I had papers published and everything before the end of four years, but I still had no interest in chemistry really.
I had to get a job so that’s when I moved to Dublin and became a cosmetic scientist. I was always doing magic but I did a lot of kids magic you know just to make ends meet to start with. I used to do boats from Ireland to France as the kids magician there. Every summer I did that, a lot of restaurant work, weddings, just work, work, work and did Bono’s nightclub every Friday and Saturday.
JC: How long did you do that?
KB: A couple of years. When I jumped into it full time I said I wouldn’t do kids magic anymore so I stopped doing kids magic-I was 23. I started slowly in the corporate market also. I met this guy at the club and I convinced him that I could up the percentage of his sales by 10% per year.
JC: Nice pitch.
KB: Yeah, now this is a multi multi-multi-million dollar company, by using magic as a marketing tool. He bought into it and he hired me full time as a magician; I was officially Champion Sports in house magician.
JC: Crazy.
KB: I was getting paid a wage to be a magician so it was great. Getting paid a wage to be a magician for a year, promoted their stores, like a mother fucker using magic, in the stores, on TV, on the radio, and became the face of champion stores and did that for a year! They wanted to renew because sales did go up, but I didn’t want to be known as the Champion Sports Magician. They actually asked at one stage if I would change my name to Keith Champion, and they were serious about it… and I was like no! After a year, we parted ways there and I got a manager and it escalated on from there you know.
JC: No kidding, I would have been very hesitant to change my name to reflect the Champion Sports Stores unless they were giving me mid-seven- figures.
KB: Yeah, yeah…Keith Champion!
JC: [laughing] That’s funny man!
KB: The mind boggles.
JC: I was reading you were born in 1976 and you started when you were 14, as you were just explaining, when did you first make the move from doing parties and corporate gigs to television? I’m sure that’s one of the questions everyone has.
KB: I suppose my first television was around 2002. Yeah, I’d been trying to get a television gig for a couple of years at that stage, but in 2002 there was a UK TV show called “Astounding Celebrities” and uh, there were about six or seven magicians. You know David Penn? You know… who invented that coin bending sort of things?
JC: Yean, nice bloke.
KB: Yeah, he was one of the magicians and myself and a few others. It was basically magicians doing magic for celebrities and it was very poorly shot, there was no production value to it and it wasn’t a great show to be honest. It eventually aired late at night in the UK, so that was my first TV show, but it was really in 2003 when I got a big break in Ireland.
JC: With whom? How’d it play out…?
KB: Well, I worked with a production company and we went down to the street, shot a whole bunch of stuff, and they used their own money, used their own stuff, edited it all together into a ten-minute promo DVD, sent it into a national broadcaster here in Ireland, which is RTE, and then I also went in and did some stuff for them personally- and that’s when they RTE first commissioned me. The show was called “Close Encounters with Keith Berry” and that was kind of my first real TV spot, because it was ten half-hour shows you know, and it was all my own stuff.
JC: Yeah, funny how that works. I got picked up on Masters of Illusion in the US. It’s a Blackstone production, and that got me into IMDB and, in a round-about way, made me a small player with just a tad bit more credibility that was parlayed into something larger for me. So I’ve had a similar experience. That first show-a collective work where I was featured-has opened larger doors.
KB: Right.
JC: I don’t think many magicians understand that process. You really do have to prove yourself in places like Hollywood. Producers need to know that you have something unique that they can ultimately sell to networks so a profit can be made; it’s all about business. Make no mistake about it. Anyway, what came next for you?
KB: I had another one of those in 2004, another series of “Close Encounter with Keith Berry” and then I just did a bunch of specials in Ireland as well and then, obviously, in the States.
JC: Yeah, I saw your first special in the US.
KB: I think it was 2004 if I’m not mistaken, that was the MTV special. When that came about I was in a night club in Hollywood and I was performing for the rapper Eve, Paris Hilton, Paul Rosenberg who’s Eminem’s manager, and Jack Osborne-and they were freaking the fuck out with the stuff I was as doing; [they were] running around the nightclub screaming, reacting really well, and an MTV executive was sitting right there-she saw me and came over and said, “How do you feel about going to Cancun Mexico next week for Spring Break I’ll give you your own show?” and of course we, Eamonn my manager was there, we jumped at the opportunity and the next week we were on the plane to Mexico and that’s how my first break in the States.
JC: In a way, that’s being at the right place at the right time. But obviously, it’s not that simple. There’s more to the story than that. It’s not like it “just” happened.
KB: Yeah, right.
KB: I think it’s all about putting yourself in the right place at the right time. What people don’t understand is, I had been travelling the States for about three years at that stage and had been in nightclubs six nights a week every night f**king doing magic wherever I could, for anybody who cared to watch, trying to infiltrate celebrity nightclubs and doing magic all day, every day!
JC: I think that’s what most people don’t get. You have to be the master of your own destiny, if you will; you have to get up off the couch, get out from behind your PC, get off the f**king magic forums, and make a life for yourself. Thinking you’ll get a TV show sitting behind a PC is about as effective as finding a real partner that you’re going to spend the rest of your life with online. It’s a fantasy.
KB: I think people don’t realize that you have to put in those kind of hours and that kind of effort-and it’s not easy. I think a lot of people think, “Oh yeah he got it just because he was in a nightclub one night.” No, I was in a night club every night for three years and not getting paid, not getting any tips, nothing… just trying to get at the celebrities. So, yeah, then I got lucky.
JC: [laughing]
KB: It takes hard work, and that can’t go unnoticed. You put yourself in a position to get lucky, then you get lucky. It doesn’t happen by accident.
JC: I’d have to agree with you. My own experiences and that of others I know who have been successful in this and other industries are very similar; you know my first interview for one of my magazines was with Cyril-I put him on the cover and did a feature story not unlike this one-and I really remember him sharing so many occasions where he just really got out there and made it happen. During another conversation with David Blaine not too long ago, he expressed as much-perhaps not in so many words, but the essence of what he shared with me was the same; you have to get out there and make the effort. Things come to those who work for it.
KB: Yeah.
JC: And I should note, one of the things I really respect about guys like you, Cyril, and DB are that you’re all pretty grounded and normal guys; you’ve all treated me as a friend and been very gracious with your time. At the end of the day, I know I’m not entitled to it, so I’m thankful and honored by that. I’ve always felt very comfortable around each of you. What impresses me the most is that you’ve all reached various degrees of celebrity status in and out of magic, and you’ve not let it go to your heads.
KB: Yeah.
JC: Whereas, I’ve met others in our community who, maybe at best have a trick or DVD out on the market, and they’re arrogant and seem to have an overwhelming sense entitlement that they’ve not even earned. The funny thing is, they don’t even realize that it’s that attitude and lack of humility that very likely bars them from success. In the rare cases that they get in front of someone who can have a major impact on their career, they blow it without ever even knowing it. That’s just too bad.
KB: [laughing] Yeah dude.
JC: I guess what I’m saying is, that’s great and I’m happy for you and that you’re setting a good example for the rest of us by working hard, not bad-mouthing people, being humble, and staying grounded. I think the moment someone starts believing the hype that they’re important just because they’ve appeared on TV or do magic for a living needs to step back and really look at the world around them. There are men not coming back from war. There are true heroes like Mother Teresa who have impacted entire generations. That’s an important lesson for all of us, and something I’m working hard to emulate in my own life. I really love that you get that and that everything you have in your life you work for it-that you earn it and don’t take it for granted.
KB: Thanks. Yeah, for every gig. Since day one, I’ve done everything. Like this thing in I said to you in Ireland, I just did this thing on Balcony TV, I never f**king heard of it, but I’m on tour here at the moment so I’ll do everything, I still do everything you know?
JC: That’s the way to do it though. That’s uh, you know instead of approaching it from a Prima-donna standpoint, you approach it from a professional standpoint and recognize the value.
KB: Exactly.
JC: You know, speaking of celebrities and Prima-donnas, your television shows had a ton of celebrities in them-more than most magic shows I’ve actually seen in the US-it was just one right after another.
KB: Yeah, it was a lot of them. I’ve performed for some really famous people.
JC: That’s pretty cool. You know, another thing I noticed, in the press at least, you were able to escape a lot of the criticism that has plagued other magicians like, say, Criss Ange for editing the shows on TV-using what I would call “strategic cuts”-to assure the effect plays as intended or looks more spectacular than it really was in person. Even DB’s been attacked for that…
KB: David’s a great guy and I respect him. I won’t comment about Criss because I believe if you’ve nothing good to say, don’t say anything at all; that’s just good manners.
JC: Okay, fair enough. I know you’ve never lashed out against any other magician in the press-except back at Criss after he acted like a douche. You told me that your policy isn’t to speak badly about other performers, which is something I admire. So I won’t press you, but me on the other hand, I don’t have a problem saying that people (especially audiences) are quick to pick up on ego-centric, self-aggrandizing, self-indulgent performers.
KB: Some would agree with that assessment.
JC: I’ll be the first to say that all boats rise with the tide, but when the tides down, it impacts us all-and that boat sailed a couple years ago. It’s bad enough that he looks like Tommy Lee and Dave Navarro produced a butt love-child, but the fact that he’s so narcissistic on top of the ridiculously contrived aging-Goth persona has made him a tremendously unlikeable tool bag in the eyes of most of the professionals in our community that I know, and there’s no doubt that it’s had the same effect on laymen too. I personally and professionally take issue with many of the things he has done, including the fact that at one point, didn’t he walk out of your show?
KB: Yeah, about 20 minutes into it.
JC: I was told that [his then girlfriend] Holly wasn’t feeling well, so they walked out?
KB: That’s what I was told. All I can say is I’ve never walked out on anyone’s show-good, bad, or indifferent. We were within walking distance on the red carpet a few days later at the opening of Paris Hilton’s Repo!-it would have been nice if he would have said something. But it is what it is.
JC: I was willing to believe that was the reason they left, which is fairly plausible. And given that he was her date, it’s only reasonable for him to take her home. What surprised me was that he didn’t have the respect to just give you a courtesy call, email, or just take the time to step up to you on the carpet and shake your hand instead of acting like you weren’t there. I have a major problem with that-that’s how children act, not grown men with integrity. Instead, they talked to reporters. Pathetic.
KB: I was pretty surprised too. Oh, well.
JC: Agreed. Well, enough about that. Let me hit you with a little controversy: you’ve been criticized by a lot of magicians for not using “original” material. Any thoughts on that?
KB: You know, I’ve done, at this stage in my career, about 20 hours of television, and you know it’s different for each show that I do. In the first show that I did in 2003, you know, I was quite inexperienced. But at the same time I’m quite proud of the end result-the end result for me is performing for lay people. Lay people don’t know whether an effect is original or not, or whether it’s your take on it or not.
JC: I’m torn, part of me likes having material that is my own-that nobody on the planet has except for me. But I also know how ridiculously difficult it is to come up with that much original material under time constraints. DB, Cyril, Criss, Copperfield, Henning, and many others all used other people’s material-period. So I think the critique is moot.
KB: Actually, for me you know, originality is important, but what’s more important is making it entertaining for an audience and also putting your own twist on it. I know for a fact, and you can check on this with other people, that the spike effect as it’s known today-and it’s very popular now-I’m the first to do it on air using an audience member’s hand. I’ve talked to a lot of people-Kenton Knepper, Dan Harlan, and many others who’ve told me that I’m definitely the first guy to use the spectator’s hand and turned the tables on them. So yes, for example, Banachek originated the effect itself and had been doing it for his audiences, but I modified it to match my own style.
JC: Most professionals I know do exactly that. I just had a conversation with Banachek yesterday, and I should note that he’s one of the coolest guys I’ve ever met-in or outside of magic-about a prediction box illusion that I’m doing for my two-hour live show, and how I wanted to put my own spin on it so that I’m not using the exact same look and feel as everyone else; everyone I know does that. He totally agreed. It’s rare that I’ve seen anything done word for word-except by amateurs.
KB: You know, it [the Spike illusion] hadn’t even been seen on the TV before. I think that as magicians we get too caught up in fooling other magicians and all that kind of stuff. For me, I think it’s more important to remember that lay people are there to be entertained and don’t give a fuck as to how it’s done, don’t give a fuck if it’s original or not, and they don’t know that I haven’t invented a certain effect-so what does it really matter?
JC: [laughing] No doubt. Fuck, I wish more people would focus on laymen and quit trying to impress other magicians at conferences or online masturbating to some new ace matrix in front of a computer camera for all thier buddies.
KB: [laughing] Did you just say “ace matrix”?
JC: Yeah, it’s a cross between an ace production and coin matrix-it’s totally made up, but makes me laugh when I think of some dumb ass trying to figure it out.
KB: [laughing]That’s funny. Yeah, you know what… what really matters is your personality. The reason I’ve gotten to where I’ve gotten is solely on my personality-the magic is secondary to that. But, in saying that, I’ve had to audition every single step of the way, and you know, I think that you really do need to have talent or you won’t make it.
JC: Totally understand. I forget who it was that said it in magic, but there was a quote somewhere in history that resonated with me-if you’ve got a personality, they’ll always love your show. I think that has always rung true in any performance-live, on TV, or otherwise.
KB: Yeah, you know, I come into criticism from a lot of magicians, but these are magicians who are sitting behind their computers and not performing. They actually have no idea what they are talking about and are quite passionate about you, you know, and years ago I actually used to look online at all the stuff, but I completely stopped and ignore it now. I just learned to pay no attention to people who have no clue how to put a live show or TV show how together.
JC: Funny you say that, it’s exactly what others have said to me. When I first got back into magic and started marketing magic products, DVDs, book tests, a magazine, and then doing TV-I got attacked a ton online at forums. About a year ago I just stopped going on all together-and the ignorant people who felt they had an audience to pontificate faded into obscurity. I’m still out there, putting my dick on the line everyday to make a go of it, but they’re not.
KB: Yeah. You know, I kind of laugh sometimes because if I’ve actually set the bar as low as some people say I have, then well go for it lads, f**king overtake me, get your own TV show in the UK, get your own TV show in Ireland, get your own TV show in the States, get your own show in Vegas-you know the bar is there, it’s low, go for it guys!
JC: [laughing]
KB: You know if I’m that f**king crap, then everybody should be able to do it-so do your thing lads! Well, the truth is I’m not crap, I know what I’m doing, and what I’m doing is making magic that’s entertaining for a lay audience and I don’t really care for entertaining magicians-that’s kind of my spin on it you know?
JC: Yeah, I actually do mate… and I think that’s how anyone who wants to be successful has to approach it if they don’t want to be held back by whinny little fuckers. What I know for certain is your face was everywhere in Vegas-and that’s not a joke.
KB: Everywhere!
JC: That in of itself, regardless of the magic, is quite an accomplishment. Getting a show in Vegas is a big deal. It costs a lot of money to do that and producers don’t invest in shows unless they think they can make a buck-period.
KB: What I think people need to realize is I went out there months before hand, and they put me in with like 60 industry people in this show room, and my show is built around audience participation and audience involvement, as you know, so these industry people-they’ve seen it all f**king before man-and I had to showcase for them. If they had thought it was shite, there was absolutely no way I was going to Planet Hollywood-at all! You know the promoter wasn’t going to spend their money putting in a crap act, and luckily for me you know, Siegfried and Roy’s manager was there and a whole bunch of other people turned up-and I was told that they all really enjoyed the show. If they hadn’t, I wouldn’t have ended up performing in there for whatever it was, five-weeks? And in the CBS show, for instance, the Rubix Cube trick, that myself and Dan Harlan co-created-was as far as I’m concerned-hugely original. I mean, nobody had done it before, and it fooled a lot of the guys-a lot of the top guys out there have asked if they could buy the rights. Even since you’ve seen my live show I’ve added a lot of my own original things to it.
JC: It’s great to see you living your goal-not just a dream.
KB: Yeah, it’s both I guess. I’m never not working, never. Like last night, I’m a technophobe and here I am on the Internet spending three hours setting up a Facebook page!
JC: [laughing]
KB: I don’t need any more friends-I have plenty of friends. I’m only doing it because of this whole Internet age thing. If people want to reach me, they know where to reach me. Fuck I think it’s crazy that when I go on to Facebook and I see that my uncle has a Facebook page, it’s like what the fuck is the world coming too?
JC: [really laughing now]
KB: The only reason any 55 year old plus should be on Facebook is if he wants to have an affair with a 20 year old, right?
JC: [choking on drink]
KB: Like seriously, in your 50′s? And if your young go into a bar and meet some f**king people! What are you doing f**king typing on f**king Facebook for fuck sake? If you want to talk to somebody f**king Skype them if you know them, I mean it’s not that hard. But I put my hands up and put up a Facebook page last night, so I’m guilty as well. Fuck!
JC: [laughing, trying to catch breath] You know I got your add to Facebook last night, I hadn’t, this is funny right, had a Facebook page either. Danny Garcia mentioned it to me along with Twitter when he and I went out to coffee. So a few days ago, I think 3 days ago, I put one up and sure enough, I got a message from you last night. Too f**king funny.
KB: I’m not even sure what Twitter is by the way, I’d never even heard of it until lately.
JC: You know what it is, it’s like, you know how blogging has become the rage, well Twitter is like miniature blogging. It allows you to send essentially the same character length as a text message, but out to your entire follow list. So if you have thousands of people following you, you can send them an update, like, “Hey, this is Keith… I’m on the shitter.” Or, “Hey this is Keith, I’m drinking a beer like everyone else in Ireland.” You know… ” This is Keith… I’m about to get a leg up.” I just got an account and have like 700 people following me already. Out of nowhere I get a PM from my aunt, who’s also in her 50s, giving me a link to her myspace. Seriously, what the fuck?
KB: For me it’s an evil necessity that I have to have, for fans and all that stuff, you know. But my point being, that I consider that work. Like Facebook to me is work-t’s not f**king fun and games. Last night I was up to half-four f**king working, sitting on my Facebook page, and then this morning I was up at f**king half 7 so I grabbed 3 hours sleep last night and was on the road to do a radio show. Then I came down here and went to the gym. And I also have to read this book called, what’s the name of it Persuasion, The Art of Influencing People. I’ve got to read that cover to cover tonight because I have to review it tomorrow on a TV show here. So that’s uh it’s just never ending but I love it. I couldn’t complain about for a f**king second. You know?
JC: I totally appreciate that and I like the fact that you characterize or categorized it as work because it’s exactly how I see it. Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, all that stuff, the only reason I have it is because I’m able to network with people and develop a fan base. That fan base, as you know, buys your product and you are the product.
KB: Yup.
JC: I have a healthy appreciation for that. So tell me about, you are obviously going to, you are poking your head wherever you can poke your head for publicity, which is intelligent, and you said any opportunity that comes along you will do it. So do you do a lot of your own PR work?
KB: Not really no, not at this stage. I still take calls on occasion. I’m pretty open with my mobile phone here in Ireland, because trust me, if I don’t recognize the number and I don’t want to answer it I just don’t answer it. A lot of the press here in Ireland and some in the US have my cell phone number and will call me directly, but if I’m going to do a TV show here or in the US or in the UK it’s always, always either my manager or my publicist who will contact them. After all, that’s what they get paid for isn’t it?
JC: Do you find that working with a publicist and/or manager opens doors up that say as a starting budding artist that you may not be able to get open on your own?
KB: Yeah absolutely, for me when I was out in LA, when I got my manager Eamonn, I guess about eight or nine years ago, I didn’t know anybody really. He had a small base of connections out there and started working the business connections a lot. For instance, he got me in front of a couple of agents in LA where there is no way they would have returned my call, but through my manager he managed to get me in front of them. But once again, I have to audition. Once I did, she took me on at Creative Artists Agency. An agent’s not as needed in Europe, but a manager is essential. If you want to go anywhere in the US, you have to have both.
JC: It seems like a Catch 22. Here you are an upcoming artist and you want to go somewhere, how do you get a manager ? How do you get a talent agent? Do you have a personal manager, a business manager, or both?
KB: I don’t really need a personal manager, just mainly a business manager. They manage my career really, you know? Once again, I auditioned for Eamonn who is my day to day manager, and then he brought me in front of Paul McGuiness, who is U2′s manager, and I had to audition for them. Now I’m co-managed by Eamonn and Paul McGuiness. They are my talent managers- they manage my talent and career. You know?
JC: Gotcha.
KB: I think I should clarify something. There is a misconception sometimes, especially in the magic world, as to what a manager could do for you. A mangers job really is to make introductions and put you in positions that you couldn’t get in yourself, but then after that you’re on your own. In all things, you have to prove yourself every step of the way. For me, I was out there so much that I found two great managers. If you figure out where good talent managers hang out, what restaurant they go to, what night clubs they go out to, and attack those night clubs viciously, then you have a good chance of attracting one. I just think a lot of magicians don’t know how to do that.
JC: Location plays a major part I think. I mean if you were in corn field Iowa, population 322, and you are wanting to become the next big thing, you really should get off your ass and move to somewhere like LA, Vegas, NYC, London or other major places like that. You have to put yourself out there.
KB: Absolutely, in Ireland I relocated to Dublin straight away from college. I knew there was nowhere else than in Dublin where I could find a manager. I knew that’s where I needed to go, so I went there. And that’s what I did in LA too. I found the top night clubs in LA and that’s where the people from MTV and CBS they all hang out in the top night clubs and it’s the same anywhere in the world, anywhere, it doesn’t matter where you are.
JC: Makes sense. So when did you go to LA?
KB: I guess I was about 24. I started traveling to LA and spending anywhere from 6 – 9 months of the year there. I did that for a couple of years at least.
JC: Man that is a lot of time, and LA is not a cheap place either.
KB: No, I know. I’ve been with my wife since I was 17, and then at 24 I said, “See ya hon… off to LA for three months.” I’d come back for a week and then leave for another three months. It was a bit f**king crazy with that as well, but we are lucky enough that we had a strong relationship to do that. We can only do that for so long and then you kind of have to make a decision; right I can only travel for three or four weeks at a time and then she either came over or I came back. We made a lot of sacrifices in the early days.
JC: [laughing] If you’ve been with her since you were 17, that’s freaking incredible. It’s also really rare to see it last that long-especially in the entertainment industry. How long have you been actually married?
KB: [long pause] Um…it’ll be three years this year. We’ve been together for a long time though.
JC: Wow, that’s great. My wife and I have been together for about fourteen years-married that long. So it’s not too bad I guess.
KB: Long time. Good for you.
JC: Yeah, you know I’ve found in the magic community, among performers anyway, it’s not that common, its…
KB: [interrupting] No because they’re all fucked up, and gay, and alcoholics and bonkers!
JC: [laughing]
KB: Put that in the f**king interview.
JC: [laughing] Right, that’s because all magicians are f**king gay!
KB:[laughing] AND alcoholics and bonkers! Don’t leave the rest of it out.
[James and Keith laughing]
JC: I guess we’re in good company!
KB: Sorry, hang on…and socially inept as well….
JC: Dude, okay…let’s go down that road for a minute, because some of this will resonate with some of our readers. I think there are a ton of people that entered magic because they are socially inept and they’re looking for something to set themselves apart in real life. What are your thoughts?
KB: I agree. Obviously not all, but I have come across so many magicians around the world that can’t actually sit down and have a conversation for longer than an hour without wanking with a deck of cards in their hands…they can’t do it, they just can’t do it. I mean that and I thinks it’s quite sad actually, and you know, it’s ok at magic conventions to sit down and share your tricks and be doing trick after trick after trick because, I guess for a lot of guys, they get caught up in the whole excitement of sharing effects. And I think in some ways, not personally for me, but in some ways, it’s a healthy thing to off load all of your creativity at a convention. But what I find is I meet magicians when I’m on tour, both here and in the US, and we’re not at a magic convention so I just want to hang and talk and find out about you as a person-but they just can’t do it. They just can’t do it, they can’t go longer than 15 minutes without doing a trick. And I figured it out, that it means they are completely socially inept, and they use magic as a crutch really. Which, once again, I suppose it isn’t necessarily a bad thing because if they weren’t doing magic they might be reclusive.
JC: Interesting.
KB: I suppose without magic they might not have gotten out in the big wide world, but I do find it quite sad when I can’t sit down with somebody and I certainly won’t name any names, but when I see a lot of professional magicians and I’m sitting down trying to have a talk with them and they are just non-stop playing with a deck of cards or coins or whatever, I just find it distracting, and I find it quite boring actually. Even though they may be very skilled people, I find it very boring, and I find that some lay people find it very boring as well. I’ve been in numerous situations where some of the tops in our field, so called tops in our field, are sitting there performing magic for people and the people are blown away for the first couple of minutes, but then they just are like, okay, enough already-we just want to sit here and have a beer and chat, you know?
JC: I do. I absolutely do.
KB: Listen, I love magic and I’m passionate about it, but I know when the right time is to perform and when the wrong time is, you know?
JC: Yeah. You know it’s funny, and again, I won’t name any names, but happen to have access to some well know folk in magic too and I’ve seen both sides of the spectrum. I know some younger magicians in their early 20′s who are just obsessed with magic as a whole and that’s cool, I appreciate their love for it, I love magic as well-I really do- but magic isn’t a central preoccupation in my life. It is, by definition, my occupation and they are mutually exclusive. There were times I’ve had to say, like at the dinner table with some of these guys, knock it the fuck off put down the ketchup packet. I mean really, you don’t need to do a torn and restored ketchup packet. It’s like God sakes man, they walk around with decks of cards in every orifice. That can’t be healthy… think of the potential paper cuts there alone.
KB: [laughing] I know what you mean.
JC: Well, let’s push on to another question. What got you into mentalism?
KB: I guess the influence really came from my buddy Joe. A lot of readers won’t know him, but he’s been working with me for about seven or eight years. Basically, what happened was, I needed somebody in Ireland to consult with my TV show, which was Close Encounters with Keith Berry. And quite honestly, he’s really the best magician in Ireland as far as I am concerned. He’s certainly the most knowledgeable magician in Ireland hands down. So I’m working with Joe and Joe knows a lot about mentalism. I didn’t know a lot at the time, but Joe was in his 50′s so he was very well read and he introduced me to the world of Basil Horowitz.
JC: Sure, Basil is very talented.
KB: I was just intrigued by the simplicity of what Basil did. All of Basil’s stuff was relatively simple magic, but was incredibly strong. That just really intrigued me, and then Joe introduced me to Doc Shields, and Doc was kind of the forefather of the bizarre and mentalist magic movement way back in the early days, so I befriended Doc about eight years ago and to this day he has a tremendous influence on me. It’s just went on from there. I then bought the Anneman books, kept researching it, you know, that’s it.
JC: Sure. I tend to lean a lot towards mentalism, but I’m not exclusively one of the others; I just do what I feel with best entertain my audiences. How about you?
KB: You know I’m not exclusive either. Unlike a lot of magicians or mentalists, you know there’s that whole argument about you should only do magic or you should only do mentalism, it’s all bullshit really-just f**king bull shit. The audience doesn’t know the difference and they don’t give a fuck. When I say they don’t know the difference, I’m mean they obviously know the difference between and illusion and you know a mind reading effect, but what they don’t know the difference between a good visual magic effect, as in for instance Healed and Sealed soda or a mind reading trick. Healed and Sealed to a normal lay audience looks like a f**king miracle, they can’t fathom how it’s done. So, that is magic and then a mind reading, you know you think of something and I’m going to draw it, that is magic in their minds as well. It’s real magic, it doesn’t even matter if it mentalist, or if it’s mindreading, or if it’s magic-as long as it looks real, that’s the point. That’s the direction I’m going in now is to make the magic look real. But once again as I said I’m not exclusive, I love doing both.
JC: It’s great since Joe introduced me to these guys and then I’ve read the modern day stuff as well. Funny enough when I look at my live show, well I think the biggest influence in my life mentalist wise besides Doc Shields would be Bob Cassidy. You know I’ve worked with Bob-he consulted on my last Irish TV special, Mind, Myths, and Magic. And I must say he was very helpful. I even do one of his memorized deck routines-it kills.
JC: Yeah, I remember watching you do that, and in fact, it was the one effect I didn’t know. I assumed it was a memorized deck, but I hadn’t actually seen it performed or read about it. I liked it a lot. After the show I called a good friend of mine-a real cool cat who is a genius in my book named Jerome-and asked him about it. He immediately named Cassidy. Since then, I’ve taken the time to learn it. The fact is though, I didn’t have a f**king clue how you did it-surprisingly, it threw me.
KB: That’s great.
JC: Right? I love that. Especially as I get older and spend more time in study, it’s hard to be fooled anymore. So when it comes along and slaps you, I really get a rush about it.
KB: That’s cool.
JC: Alright, let me ask you who influenced you on the visual side of the house?
KB: I suppose it was Copperfield. I was just blown away as a kid by Copperfield and a big fan. I was amazed at the magic he did and how visual it was, it was fantastic. I remember being totally flabbergasted the first time I saw Lance Burton too. Saw a TV special and recorded it and sat and watched it 150 f**king times. It was a show from the Magic Castle, and he did his dove act and he finished it with the levitating cage. It was just absolutely beautiful and I was blown away by that. I suppose Copperfield and Lance, also Brett Daniels, I was a huge fan of his. What I like about Brett, as opposed to a lot of the other styles of stage magicians, is he walks like a real man, like the way a f**king man should walk. He didn’t prance around the stage in a leotard, he walked like a f**king man, in my opinion, like a real man should walk. I was also impressed by his choice of styling and music and I just thought he was fantastic, you know?
JC: Sure. I’ve seen Copperfield several times. I’ve had the privilege of meeting him once-definately an honor in my book. I’ve also had the chance to visit with Chris Kenner, his right hand man, and Homer Liwag who works with them. I really respect and admire the three of them a lot. Copperfield was a big influence on me as a child. I remember him walking through the Great Wall of China, Vanishing the Statue of Liberty, and with those, it was like what the fuck? They were…
KB: [interupting] … iconic moments in magic!
JC: Right, exactly. And you know what’s funny? I actually learned crazy man hand cuffs when I was 12 from a David Copperfield special by watching it over and over and over again. The funniest thing is, it wasn’t until last year that I realized that my method of doing it was not the way he had done it or how it was traditional accomplished. Go figure!
KB: [laughing] That’s funny!
JC: I saw Lance Burton’s show about two years ago and Brett Daniels too before it closed at the Sahara. Brett, you’re right, he comes out and swaggers across the stage like John Wayne.
KB: Yeah, yeah. I saw the show in Vegas. I thought it needed some time to bed itself in, unfortunate for him he didn’t get it.
JC: Yeah, that show, you know the deal there are always pros and cons of any show, but I think the highlight for me, what shocked the shit out of me, with that production at the end, of the carriage?
KB: yeah, yeah!
JC: Right?
KB: Yeah, it shocked me too!
JC: I’m like, did I f**king blink. What was that? Where’d that come from. I was like what the fuck just happened? I mean it’s a beautiful illusion, I won’t tip how it’s done, I’ll let the readers salivate, but I will say that it’s one of the best productions I’ve ever seen. It was incredibly fast, and it really just shocked me man.
KB: yeah it was. Brilliant.
JC: Well, who was it that actually influenced you, on the visual side, routine wise?
KB: Probably Dan Harlan, and in the early days it would have been Michael Ammar, then Dan Harlan, and then Jay Sankey over the last couple of years. The three of them really. Before the days of DVD’s I had the Magic of Ammar. I remember learning the cups and balls from him. Oh, I also have to throw in David Roth too. I used to do all the f**king coin magic. I used to be really f**king good with coins. Dan just influenced me a lot from meeting him and just what a creative guy he is, and just what a fantastic thinker. He really thinks outside the box and also a lot of his magic is very visual. I worked with Jay Sankey as well, but before I ever worked with him I saw that Jay gets it, he gets what lay people want, and Jay gets a lot of criticism from magicians as well because they think, oh he’s rehashing old ideas-he’s not, he’s putting modern twists on old classics and his scripting is very influential to me. I think his scripts are particularly strong. I think things like Paperclipped and Airtight will go down as some of the greatest close up magic of our era-I think it’s that strong.
JC: Indeed. Papperclipped is fantastic. I’ve got over 40 DVD’s of his. I did a big interview with Jay for my magazine back in the day- we put him on the cover. I think was a good choice, huge article, you know just sitting like I am with you getting a chance to get to know an icon like him. In my opinion he will go down in magic history as one of the most prolific and intelligent creators in our art form. I really respect him both as a creator and as a person.
KB: I remember the first time I performed in Toronto last year, he and I got the chance to get to know each other and he’s just a really down to earth nice guy, and it was great. We sat down for two or three hours and there wasn’t a magic trick done. Not one! Just sat down and shot the shit. He’s not socially inept, put that in the article! He’s got serious social skills.
JC: No doubt-he’s just an all around nice guy. So anything new you want to share?
KB: Ummm… did I tell you I got the Merlin award?
JC: From the International Magic Society-that’s Tony Hassinni right? How did that come about?
KB: Well, he contacted me and said he wanted to come and see the show. After he saw the show he rang my manager to say that the IMS had decided to award me the Merlin Award for Mentalist of the Year 2009, which is pretty cool. He flew to Ireland and presented it to me at the Olympia Theatre, which holds about 1400. So he walked on stage with these 1400 people in Ireland and presented it to me. It was great and really fun.
JC: That’s awesome that he flew over to Ireland to give you an award.
KB: Yeah, it was great. He flew all the way out and spent a couple days in Ireland and gave me the award. I also filmed a little footage with him for a future DVD, and he flew back to New York.
JC: That’s cool. So let me ask you about the theatre, how many theatres do you generally book in Ireland? Obviously, Ireland is a pretty small country but are you talking Ireland and Northern Ireland?
KB: Not really Northern Ireland, mainly Ireland because I wouldn’t be as well know in the North. I’ve not had as much TV exposure there as I’ve had in the South. So mainly the Republic. This tour I’m doing now is about twenty dates in about fourteen different theatres; some I do for two or three days and others I’m just in and out. The smallest is, I guess, about 500 seats and up to about 2000.
JC: That’s excellent, and are they generally pretty sold out?
KB: Yeah, this is my fourth year running so I’m pretty lucky they sell well.
JC: Here’s a business question for you that I am pretty sure I already know the answer for. What do you feel is more lucrative-TV shows or theatre? I’ve asked this same question of a number of very well known performers, and the answer is nearly unanimous-theatre hands down.
KB: Oh, definitely the stage show. I mean your live show is always going to be more lucrative, I mean that’s where you have to earn your living. In my experience you won’t make a living in television unless you get endorsements on the back end. The specials will pay the bills, but you really need to do live shows to produce the kind of living most people want.
JC: That’s precisely why my new stage show launches this Summer. Did TV and now I’m parlaying that into other shows and theatre-everyone’s told me that the TV shows open the doors and help you succeed at the live shows. But for me, the stage is much, much harder than TV is.
KB: Yeah, well, you’ve got to bust your ass doing everything right? But you’re right, f**king rehearsing the stage show, promoting the stage show, staying healthy, it’s all part of the business. Looking good, not putting on too much weight. It’s like there’s just so much too. It’s a fulltime thing. You’ve got to keep yourself busy promoting. Really, it’s promo, promo, promo, promo, promo, then you’ve got put on a f**king good show that people are going to enjoy. A lot of people think this is easy, well, it’s not. You know, I love it, but it’s not easy. But at the end of the day, it’s easier than having a f**king 9-5 day job that’s for sure. That’s why I do it.
JC: [laughing] Right, yeah, fair enough. It’s always said that if you are doing something you feel passionate about and you love, then it’s not really work.
KB: No it’s not, it’s true.
JC: You know what, I think that’s a great place finish up at, and it’s great advice for anyone reading this interview. Just do what you love.
KB: I couldn’t give better advice than that myself.
-END-
© Copyright 2009 by James L. Clark, Snr., Esq. All rights reserved. Duplication prohibited by domestic and international laws. This document is not for open publication and may not be released to third parties. The rights of the author have been asserted.
